<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1505</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/16/99 2:11:59 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 16 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1505<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Re Laws affecting Space Travel from the US [OT]<BR>
Re: Re-introduction<BR>
laws, shmaws! space belongs to the People!<BR>
Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Re: Listserv<BR>
Re: Re-introduction<BR>
Dino Killers Revisited<BR>
Re: PBEM Questions and Setup<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: Re-introduction<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Re: Exploding suppressors...<BR>
Re: Superpowers & Photosynthesis<BR>
Re: Kids in the Hall<BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!<BR>
Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Re: Exploding suppressors...<BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: Guns and Cultural Differences<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:22:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
SethKimmel wrote:<BR>
> supposedly I'm a Cohen (I find it hard to believe<BR>
> the genealogy is still <BR>
> uninterrupted from Aaron...), so I can open it...:-)<BR>
> <BR>
hehehe willing to bet your life on it?:)<BR>
My middle name is Aaron, but I wouldn't touch the thing.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:23:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Laws affecting Space Travel from the US [OT]<BR>
<BR>
> And if it carries people for money, it falls under<BR>
> the air-carrier rules.<BR>
> At least  US customs has declared that there is no<BR>
> tarif on goods from<BR>
> space. ;)<BR>
Brilliant Business Idea No 346: Duty free shop in Low<BR>
Earth Orbit!<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:33:52 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re-introduction<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> So, what are the hot, done to death and overly sensitive topics du jour?<BR>
<BR>
Well, in October we had the dreaded Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse:<BR>
<BR>
**begin quote from October 1999**<BR>
<BR>
> Nooooooooo!  It is the time the prophets warned us of so long ago, when<BR>
> the Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse would rage over the TML<BR>
> simultaneiously!  Already we had "where does jump fuel go" and "what was<BR>
> the best rules version".  Now the terrifying countenance of "what is a<BR>
> feudal technocracy" blazes in the heavens.  Can it be long before "why<BR>
> don't people fight wars with near-c rocks" emerges from the sea to<BR>
> complete the prophecy and signal the doom of us all?<BR>
<BR>
Now is the time of the Gathering, when the stroke of a key will unleash<BR>
a spray of Pepsi on the keyboard.  In the end, there can be only one....<BR>
<BR>
**end quote from October 1999**<BR>
<BR>
As I'm sure you guessed, the "near-c rocks" issue came up again shortly<BR>
thereafter.<BR>
<BR>
More recently, we've been working on the Annual TML 2d Amendment<BR>
Debate....<BR>
<BR>
On a more positive note, C**f is still off the list....<BR>
<BR>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/ditzie.htm<BR>
<BR>
(See the fourth illustration from the top for details.)<BR>
<BR>
[I just _love_ pointing these drawings out!  Thanx, Jesse!]<BR>
<BR>
Hope that helps!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:40:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: laws, shmaws! space belongs to the People!<BR>
<BR>
Some wise man wrote:>>And once in space,  you fall<BR>
under UN rules preventing anyone but a<BR>
soverign<BR>
nation that is a member of the UN from exploiting any<BR>
resources.>><BR>
<BR>
Well, I'd be inclined to hop on that ship, land on<BR>
that asteroid, start hauling it back to earth and say,<BR>
"sue me, Secretary General. Come and get me!" And moon<BR>
him from orbit.<BR>
<BR>
As for local laws, I daresay that if some private<BR>
company managed to, say, put a shipload of idiots with<BR>
more money than sense into space, well, they'd have<BR>
enough money from ticket sales to pay the government<BR>
fines fifty times over.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:45:31 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Frank said:<BR>
It's set after a postulated succesful Martian invasion, the title character<BR>
being a survivor of the gladiatorial arena set up by the Martian overlords.<BR>
<BR>
The series "The White Mountains" (John Christopher?) is also an obvious rip-off<BR>
of WotW.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:56:09 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Listserv<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>Does anyone know how to unsubscribe to this listserv ? Thanks<BR>
<BR>
I've emailed the answer to jes8.<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:05:22 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Re-introduction<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Ross asked:<BR>
>So, what are the hot, done to death and overly sensitive topics du jour?<BR>
<BR>
Hot: Imperial Military Academies, Grandfather vs The Hivers, Marines & Cutlasses<BR>
(again), Possible Content of GT: Nobles, Rise and Fall of RPGs<BR>
<BR>
Done To Death: Near-c rocks (again), else see the FAQ<BR>
<BR>
Overly Sensitive: US Militia and the 2nd Amendment (again again - also Done To<BR>
Death)<BR>
<BR>
>Ross Coburn<BR>
<BR>
Any relation to Bruce? ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:09:47 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Dino Killers Revisited<BR>
<BR>
<serious Query, not flamebait><BR>
Having just rewatched TLC's Asteroid Impact, the following occured to me...<BR>
<BR>
Options for a dino-killer type imminent impact:<BR>
Shatter<BR>
Divert<BR>
<BR>
Shattering keeps getting trounced here based upon 100 impacts of 100m is no<BR>
better than 1 impact of 1500m of rock.<BR>
<BR>
Diverting is energy intensive.<BR>
<BR>
Would not shattering, especially at times from impact on the order of 5-10<BR>
weeks, if done with sufficient force, scatter most off a direct impact? And<BR>
if sufficient force is used, would one not be able, especially with<BR>
TTL10-12 capabilites, to deliver sufficient force repeatedly enough to<BR>
reduce the impacts below the atmosphereic deep penetration thresholds?<BR>
<BR>
So, is not shattering in essence ALSO diversion AND reduction below threat<BR>
size?<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:07:56 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: PBEM Questions and Setup<BR>
<BR>
On 12/13/99 at 12:54 PM,  "Eric T. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Fellow Sophonts:<BR>
<BR>
>I have several PCs leaving the ABQ, NM area to go on to RL military<BR>
>careers. They have voiced their desire to continue playing using<BR>
>e-mail as a means of keeping in contact.  I am looking for ideas on<BR>
>how to go about this and have  several questions.  Please answer<BR>
>offline, so not to take up TML space unless you feel this a viable<BR>
>TML Topic.  I have seen several PBEM Traveller sites and these all<BR>
>look cool.  Perhaps you folks with the working experience could<BR>
>give some tips.<BR>
<BR>
>1)  Is this an easy task?  <BR>
<BR>
No, it's not.  It's, at least, as hard a task to keep a PBEM going<BR>
as it is to keep a FTF game going.<BR>
<BR>
>2)  How much more time will this require compared to other session<BR>
>preparation?<BR>
<BR>
I spend about as much time on game prep for my PBEM as I do for FTF<BR>
sessions.  I spend a *lot* of time writing and responding to the<BR>
player's game posts.  What you do verbally in a 2 hour session can<BR>
take 3 or 4 hours in an IRC game and weeks in an email game. <BR>
<BR>
>3)  How easy are "chat" systems to use during gaming sessions?<BR>
<BR>
I've seen IRC, AOL Messenger, and ICQ all used in online gaming.  I<BR>
think, if you can find a small uncrowed ICR server, that's the best<BR>
method for chat type games.<BR>
<BR>
>4)  How often do you "meet" to play?<BR>
<BR>
For chat type games the norm seems to be once every one to two weeks<BR>
for a session.  It's best if you can setup a schedule so people can<BR>
plan ahead, but like FTF games you can't always count on everybody<BR>
making to the game.  Do what you'd do in a FTF game, either ignore<BR>
the absent or NPC them.<BR>
<BR>
Email games fall into two different types that I call turn based and<BR>
conversational roleplaying.  <BR>
<BR>
Turn based games are where the GM posts the situation and the<BR>
players all respond to him with their proposed actions, the GM puts<BR>
all the player posts together and responds with what actually<BR>
happened, and that starts the cycle again.  One or two "turns" a<BR>
week is the best you can really hope for.<BR>
<BR>
Conversational games are more like FTF games where everyone is<BR>
gathered around the table talking at once.  The GM posts situations<BR>
and NPC actions and words.  The players talk to each other and the<BR>
GM's NPC's, propose actions, and toss both IC (in character) and OOC<BR>
(out of character) comments back and forth.  The GM has to<BR>
constantly stay involved posting what actually happens as the game<BR>
progresses in "real time."  There's a lot of "noise" in this method,<BR>
but can be a heck of a lot of fun.  For conversational games<BR>
everyone posts every day, sometimes several times a day, and still<BR>
it can take a month to play out a day. <BR>
<BR>
>5)  I don't have a web site, do I need one?<BR>
<BR>
It's not required, but it's a *very* good idea.<BR>
<BR>
>6)  If a web site is recommended, where should I go to get the space?<BR>
<BR>
There are lots of choices including, but not limited to, geocities,<BR>
xoom, crosswinds, your local isp, and the file space on egroups or<BR>
onelist.<BR>
<BR>
>7)  What is the minimum space I can get away with?<BR>
<BR>
If you're putting up mostly text, then a couple of meg will do.  If<BR>
you are putting up lots of graphics, then you'll need lots of space.<BR>
You'll have to decide what you want to use the site for your game.<BR>
 <BR>
I don't mind lurkers in my PBEM.  If you're interested ask me about<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:00:36 -0800<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
>>You also have to remember that Jefferson and others <BR>
>>are on record as having stated (essentially) that if <BR>
>>the government got out of hand, the people were <BR>
>>*supposed* to overthrow it by force of arms!<BR>
><BR>
>That is, after all, exactly what happened in the<BR>
>American Revolution.  The people overthrew the British<BR>
>colonial government.  <BR>
<BR>
However, for reasons that should be obvious to the astute reader, the<BR>
people who are currently in charge of USGov prefer not to mention this<BR>
interpretation of the Second Amendment very much.  (It might give people<BR>
ungood ideas.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a <BR>
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.<BR>
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."<BR>
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:04:14 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: jes8 <jes8@uakron.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 4:32 PM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> unsubscribe traveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:12:01 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
...<BR>
>    World War One was a true obscenity, at the Somme the British lost 60,000<BR>
>men in the first day and the final butchers bill was 620,000 dead Allies and<BR>
>450,000 dead Germans. This doesn't take into account the gassed, maimed or<BR>
>insane. Those six months really proved that mankind is a disgusting<BR>
<BR>
  AFAIK, those are the casualty figures; dead would be about a third of that.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:15:27 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re-introduction<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, I'd like to say Hi! to fellow list members Glenn Grant, one of my<BR>
> former players, and Doug Berry, who was kind enough to get me introduced to<BR>
> my new home city.<BR>
><BR>
> Oh yeah, I have recently moved to San Francisco from Montral, and if there<BR>
> are any other Bay Area Traveller fans on the list, please feel free to drop<BR>
> me a line; I'd love to hear from you.<BR>
<BR>
Yo... Which side of the bay?<BR>
<BR>
> So, what are the hot, done to death and overly sensitive topics du jour?<BR>
<BR>
 The usual.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:42:13 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
...<BR>
>Look at it this way.  Have you ever heard of criminals that<BR>
>couldn't get pretty much whatever type of weapon they wanted? <BR>
  <BR>
  Umm, yes? And I suspect that condition applies even more so for<BR>
the UK and most of Western Europe (?). Not that there isn't (well,<BR>
at least was) a thriving business in importing firearms from the US.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:50:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
>We decided to start in London, to keep some of the feel of the original<BR>
>WotW.<BR>
><BR>
>As the war started, imagine our surprise when the characters ran into a<BR>
>burning _SHADO_ mobile in the main street !<BR>
><BR>
>Remember them ?<BR>
<BR>
Remember them?  Shoot, just last weekend I was thinking it would be cool to<BR>
have them done up for GURPS :^)  Wish the Sci-Fi channel would show that<BR>
series again, of course I'd probably never notice it was on.  Don't<BR>
remember the last time I bothered to watch anything they had on.<BR>
<BR>
>There is also the near future "Killraven : Warrior of the Worlds" comic<BR>
>series by Don McGregor, originally published in "Amazing Adventures"  from<BR>
>Marvel Comics.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, not familiar with this one.<BR>
<BR>
>> Actually an entire HG Wells sourcebook would be a cool undertaking!  Or<BR>
>> even a sourcebook based on the movies based on his works :^)<BR>
><BR>
>Or both. I think including Jules Verne and Conan Dyle would be a good idea<BR>
>too.<BR>
<BR>
You'd also have to toss in Edgar Rice Burroughs.<BR>
<BR>
>Though one could say that the steam-punk books cover this reasonably well.<BR>
<BR>
What steam-punk books?<BR>
<BR>
				Zane<BR>
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |<BR>
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |<BR>
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |<BR>
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |<BR>
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:57:56 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Exploding suppressors...<BR>
<BR>
> > Worth a read of Iain M Banks' "Consider Phlebas"<BR>
><BR>
>I'd love to. But the book is "too old" to be in stock at the local<BR>
>bookstores, and too popular to be in stock at the used bookstores<BR>
>(like Powells) that I've checked. Ditto for the rest of his >"Culture" <BR>
>books.<BR>
<BR>
Hell they're all over the bookstores over here...tell me what you're after, <BR>
send some money and I'll work out how huch it'll cost to ship them if you <BR>
like?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:58:42 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers & Photosynthesis<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/14/99 4:55 AM, boc@raidtec.ie wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You don't have to go to other planets for this: The tree in my front garden<BR>
> has deep red leaves. I don't know what type of tree it is, but there are<BR>
> several types in just my estate with red leaves, one so dark as to be almost<BR>
> black. <BR>
<BR>
Probably an ornamental plum tree, they are popular for their dark burgundy<BR>
foliage. I like my trees green though, but a few for color is cool.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:01:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kids in the Hall<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/14/99 7:20 AM, Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm sending this offlist.<BR>
<BR>
Really now?<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:15:53 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
"Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    World War One was a true obscenity, at the Somme the British lost 60,000<BR>
>men in the first day and the final butchers bill was 620,000 dead Allies and<BR>
>450,000 dead Germans.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
No. The *true* obscenity was thinking you could have a war in Europe with<BR>
modern weapons and armies of several million each and not have days like<BR>
the 1st July 1916.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:53:40 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>But you do have to remember that the only people that<BR>
>the Finns traditionally dislike more than the Russians<BR>
>are the Swedes (and even among the Finns the<BR>
>Savolainen are said to think that they're superior to<BR>
>everyone else, while the Karelians are considered sort<BR>
>of like people who live in Appalachia).  Still, those<BR>
>frosty northern temperaments seem to lead to a lot<BR>
>more snide jokes than drive-by shootings.  (My<BR>
<BR>
Its also a damned hell to get those russian ladas started <BR>
in those temperatures. A drive-by shooting in a horse-pulled<BR>
sleigh just isn't the same stuff, allthough it might be <BR>
approriate for the time of year :-)<BR>
<BR>
>relatives couldn't tell me enough Swedish jokes the<BR>
>last time I was there.)<BR>
<BR>
It ain't no better on the other side of Sweden. Here in<BR>
Norway we have the same jokes about the Swedes as the Finnish.<BR>
<BR>
I think that most of the difference is that the Scandinavian<BR>
countries are very wealthy by world standards, with their<BR>
wealth fairly even diveded by the population. Violent crimes done<BR>
with guns are most likely to be performed by poor, low-educated <BR>
males and fourtunatly it ain't to many of those here, allthough<BR>
you se a rise in problems with refugees from Yugoslavia, who<BR>
have litterly taken over the underworld buisness in Oslo,<BR>
the capital of Norway.<BR>
<BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:53:00 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
>I've also visited the page. For background music, may I suggest none other<BR>
>than the 1978 soundtrack to "The War of the Worlds" by Jeff Wayne!<BR>
Includes<BR>
>Justin Hayward's "Forever Autumn", probably one of the most beautiful<BR>
modern<BR>
>love ballads ever produced.....<BR>
<BR>
>"The summer sun is fading as the year grows old,<BR>
> And darker days are drawing near.<BR>
> The winter winds will be much colder,<BR>
> Now you're not here."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for that.  I love this album.  Just rereading the above and having<BR>
the tune kickstart in my memory has brought me out in goosebumps.  Of<BR>
course, given that the girl in WoW is called 'Carrie' I've often thought<BR>
that Cliff Richard's "Carrie Doesn't Live Here Anymore" would be kind of<BR>
appropriate - but not in the same league as the above.<BR>
<BR>
Kai!  I get shivers down my spine when I hear that "and slowly, but surely,<BR>
they drew their plans against us".  Surely the catchphrase of every referee<BR>
with half decent NPCs black hats.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:55:44 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Exploding suppressors...<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 12/15/99 1:24 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OBtrav: Let the players learn this the hard way.<BR>
<BR>
Any ideas on guidelines for play? How many rounds in how much time at so and<BR>
so caliber = what percentage chance of boom, how big a boom, effects of<BR>
boom?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:03:00 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
On 15 Dec 99, at 20:48, Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> There's a lot of competition for the bloodiest day,<BR>
> week, month and year of war. And then of course it<BR>
> depends what you call a "war". Some speak of "war<BR>
> against the people", and in that case China has a<BR>
> bloody history, with some 30 million killed during the<BR>
> Cultural Revolution (about ten years), and Stalin came<BR>
> close in the 30s, with about 25 million killed (at one<BR>
> point, one in five of the adult male population was in<BR>
> a labour camp!) However, for myself, I call that plain<BR>
> old genocide, and "war" means when someone's shooting<BR>
> and someone's shooting back (the April Rising in the<BR>
> Warsaw Ghetto, as opposed to Babi Yar).<BR>
> <BR>
> Most of the famous battles were bloody ones:<BR>
> Chansolerville, Antietam, First and Second Bull Run,<BR>
> Normandy, Monte Cassino, Stalingrad...<BR>
<BR>
How about the bloodiest x seconds? I'd go for the Hiroshima bombing.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:03:00 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Guns and Cultural Differences<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Dec 99, at 18:30, Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > Something I'd be interested in knowing, if anyone has the stats, is what<BR>
> > the "gun density" of different countries/cities is, and how this relates<BR>
> > to levels of violence. I'm not talking about restrictiveness of gun laws<BR>
> > here, but number of guns per person.  The more common guns are, the more<BR>
> <BR>
> A piece of random information for you.<BR>
> <BR>
> Reportedly, New Zealand has the highest gun ownership per head in the<BR>
> world.<BR>
> <BR>
> However, this is caused by collectors with huge collections, and New<BR>
> Zealand's small population.<BR>
> <BR>
> The _rate_ of gun ownership is lower than the US.<BR>
<BR>
But AFAIK second only to the US, once you discount the Swiss, etc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1505<BR>
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